Quote from: Subeyi Kurt on October 10, 2013, 20:02
"Траките" не са за отхвърляне, защото са си древни туранци - туррок/трк. Техният език беше усвоен и трансформиран, моделиран, интерпретиран, преоформен и нагласен в "славянски", защото пра-тюркската морфология е очевидна в тези езици, а балканските наречия бяха твърде древни и достигнаха до Балтика и Крим ...Кимерийците са повече митология. Това са ким-ер, които по-късно станаха известни като "първите сармати". Тамгите не могат да ни заблудят, все пак
Морфологията на тези езици е така очебийна, но е твърде комплицирано да си признаят някои хора официално, че т.н. "славянски езици" са трако-балтийски пра-тюркски...Знам, че е сложно, но това е положението и то е очевидно за всички непредубедени изследователи в цял свят...Е, да, изводи се правят с логика, все пак. Много по-удобно е да се твърди, че "тракийския език" е изчезнал и тези хора не са имали писменост.
Най-лесният начин да се удостовери "тракийския език" е когато се разгледа този на етруските. Това са една и съща пра-тюркска група, мигририла по едно и също време предимно от Мала Азия. В Мала Азия идват от друго място, но това е отделна тема Бих могъл да дам стотици примери за общата древна морфология и как се измисли "славянския език"...
St.Dinkov
Това са пълни глупости:
Все едно Реметалк,Спароток,Севт и пр. имат тюркско звучене.
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Makar tova e diskytirano v predishni temi otnovo shte my obesnq na barzo nezavisimo, che otnovo shte se pravi, che nishto ne razbira kato drygite haidyti .
Nishto haidyto-"bAlgaro" zvychno nqma v tezi imena kato Sevt, Sevtopolis, Sparatok,Spartak i tem podobni...
Tezi imena sa absolutni drevno "gratcki" i Anatoliski imena (lidiski,likiiski,troqnski,kariiski,muezki,paeonski i t.n)... razprostranili se nagore kam Balkanskiq polyostrov sled vekove pri nahlyvaniq i preselvaniq.
Spored religioznite predskazaniq bi trqbvalo da ima haidyte, shtoto ( Noah ) ima tri sina Shem, Ham i Japheth
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NoahSinove na Shem sa : Elam, Asshur, Arphaxad, Lud, Aram
Sinove na Ham sa : Cush, Mizraim, Phut, Canaan
Sinove na Japheth sa : Gomer, Magog, Madai, Javan, Tubal, Meshech, Tiras
The Hebrew name Gomer is widely considered to refer to the Cimmerians (Akkadian Gimirru, "complete"), who dwelt on the Eurasian Steppes[5] and attacked Assyria in the late 7th century BC. The Assyrians called them Gimmerai ; the Cimmerian king Teushpa was defeated by Assarhadon of Assyria sometime between 681 and 668 BC.
Gomer's descendants
Three sons of Gomer are mentioned in Genesis 10, namely
• Ashkenaz
• Riphath (spelled Diphath in I Chronicles)
• Togarmah
Children of Ashkenaz was originally identified with the Scythians (Assyrian Ishkuza), then after the 11th century, with Germany.[13][14] It has been conjectured that the term in the original Hebrew was Ashkuz, but that it became Ashkenaz when the Hebrew letter waw was accidentally miscopied as the similar-looking letter nun at some early stage of the transmission.[citation needed] Irish Genealogy traces itself to Ibath, son of Gomer (thought to be a form of Riphath).[citation needed]
Ancient Armenian and Georgian chronicles lists Togarmah as the ancestor of both people who originally inhabited the land between two Black and Caspian Seas and between two inaccessible mountains, Mount Elbrus and Mount Ararat respectively.[15][16]
According to Khazar records, Togarmah is regarded as the ancestor of the Turkic-speaking peoples.[17]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GomerThere is also a medieval Hungarian legend that says the Huns, as well as the Magyars, are descended from twin brothers named Hunor and Magor respectively, who lived by the sea of Azov in the years after the flood, and took wives from the Alans. The version of this legend in the 14th century Chronicon Pictum equates this Magor with Magog, son of Japheth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magog_(Bible)
Gomer ima 3 sina Ashkenaz, Riphath i Togarmah,
Znachi Gomer i Tiras sa bratq a sina na Gomer e Togarmah ot koito predstci sa i turkite, a i pri Tiras sa predstcite na traki.
Togarmah third son of Gomer, and grandson of Japheth, brother of Ashkenaz and Riphat (Genesis 10:3). He is held to be the ancestor of the peoples of the South Caucasus: (the Georgians, the Armenians) and some Turkic peoples.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TogarmahJosephus wrote that Tiras became ancestor of the "Thirasians" (Thracians)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TirasAccording to other records, Togarmah is regarded as the ancestor of the Turkic peoples. For example, The French Benedictine monk and scholar Calmet (1672–1757) places Togarmah in Scythia and Turcomania (in the Eurasian Steppes and Central Asia).[6] Also in his letters, King Joseph ben Aaron, the ruler of the Khazars, writes:
"You ask us also in your epistle: "Of what people, of what family, and of what tribe are you?" Know that we are descended from Japhet, through his son Togarmah. I have found in the genealogical books of my ancestors that Togarmah had ten sons. These are their names:
the eldest was Ujur (Agiôr - Uyghur),
the second Tauris (Tirôsz - Tauri),
the third Avar (Avôr - Avar),
the fourth Uauz (Ugin - Oghuz),
the fifth Bizal (Bizel - Pecheneg),
the sixth Tarna,
the seventh Khazar (Khazar),
the eighth Janur (Zagur),
the ninth Bulgar (Balgôr - Bulgar),
the tenth Sawir (Szavvir/Szabir - Sabir)."[7]
This similarity might confirm a connection of origins between Anatolian and Caucasus peoples.
In Jewish sources too Togarmah is listed as the father of the Turkic peoples: The medieval Jewish scholar: Joseph ben Gorion lists in his Josippon the ten sons of Togarma as follows:
Kozar (the Khazars)
Pacinak (the Pechenegs)
Aliqanosz (the Alans)
Bulgar (the Bulgars)
Ragbiga (Ragbina, Ranbona)
Turqi (possibly the Kökturks)
Buz (the Oghuz)
Zabuk
Ungari (either the Hungarians or the Oghurs/Onogurs)
Tilmac (Tilmic/Tirôsz - Tauri)."
In the Chronicles of Jerahmeel, they are listed as:
Cuzar (the Khazars)
Pasinaq (the Pechenegs)
Alan (the Alans)
Bulgar (the Bulgars)
Kanbinah
Turq (possibly the Kökturks)
Buz (the Oghuz)
Zakhukh
Ugar (either the Hungarians or the Oghurs/Onogurs)
Tulmes (Tirôsz - Tauri)
Another medieval rabbinic work, the Book of Jasher, further corrupts these same names into:
Buzar (the Khazars)
Parzunac (the Pechenegs)
Elicanum (the Alans)
Balgar (the Bulgars)
Ragbib
Tarki (the Kökturks)
Bid (the Oghuz)
Zebuc
Ongal (Hungarians or Oghurs/Onogurs)
Tilmaz (Tirôsz - Tauri).
In Arabic records, Togorma's tribes are these:
Khazar (the Khazars)
Badsanag (the Pechenegs)
Asz-alân (the Alans)
Bulghar (the Bulgars)
Zabub
Fitrakh (Kotrakh?) (Ko-etrakh. Etrakh means turks [possibly Gokturks])
Nabir
Andsar (Ajhar)
Talmisz (Tirôsz - Tauri)
Adzîgher (Adzhigardak?).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Togarmah Haidytite i kojite da se oderat ne moje i ne sa bili nikoga "slavqni" koito termin e mnogo kasno ponqtie pod Dynava sled Kumanite-turki.
Takava karta po vashite haidyshki peshteri dali ima, haidyte ?
Noahsworld_map.jpg
Josephustable3.jpg
Стига с параноята ,че ми заприличахте на братята македоноиди.
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Haidytite si derat kojite, zashto li adjeba ne iskat drevnite makedontci da se narichat "bAlgari" kato nqkak'v monah Paisii s nadstavka ot gratskiq manastir Hilendarski v gratski polyostrov.
Тюрките са толкова нова група,че когато е имало траки-те едва ли са се били формирали.
Turkite imat bashti, dqdovtci, pradqdovtci, i pra-pra dqdovtci i tova sa Hyni, Xiognu koito sa ot Andronovo i Afanasovo kultura, dyshko-haidyshko.
Varvi my dokazvai na haidyta, koito povtarq vse edno i sashto ot kakto e vleznal tyk, sashto kato myrgavo-indoevropeitcite narichani "tcigani"ot samite haidyti.
Varvi my dokazvai na haidyta, che bulgar-turkite sa pisali na Orkhon rynni kakto e pisano v Amyrdjakoviq nadpis.
"Kanasubigi" = kan+su+begi
Kanasubigi or Kana subigi, as it is written in Bulgarian Greek inscriptions, was a title of the Bulgars.
The title khan for early Bulgar rulers is an assumed one, as only the form kanasubigi or "k(h)anasybigi"[1] is attested in stone inscriptions. Historians presume that it includes the word khan in its archaic formkana, and there is a supporting evidence suggesting that the latter title was indeed used in Bulgaria, e.g. the name of one of the Bulgarian rulers Pagan occurs in Patriarch Nicephorus's so-called breviarium asΚαμπαγάνος (Kampaganos), likely an erroneous rendition of the phrase "Kan Pagan".[2] Among the proposed translations for the phrase kanasubigi as a whole are lord of the army, from the reconstructedTurkic phrase *sü begi, paralleling the attested Old Turkic sü baši,[3] and, more recently, "(ruler) from God", from the Indo-European *su- and baga-, i.e. *su-baga (an equivallent of the Greek phrase ὁ ἐκ Θεοῦ ἄρχων, ho ek Theou archon, which is common in Bulgar inscriptions).[4] This titulature presumably persisted until the Bulgars adopted Christianity.[5] Some Bulgar inscriptions written in Greek and later inSlavonic refer to the Bulgarian ruler respectively with the Greek title archon or the Slavic title knyaz.[6]
Etymologically, it may also be associated and well explained with Proto-Turkish word kan meaning "ancestor" (in modern Turkish "blood"). (N.B.: the words khan and kagan don't have the same origin, so that they probably can't explain kana, although the meanings similar. The differentiation between kana and kagan/khan can clearly be made whenever these words are contained in Bulgar names. The vowel a as junction vowel is common in Turkic languages; su ("water;" "river;" "lake") is pan-Turkic, and bigi might be a variant of 'begi', both being variants of beyi "bey of", "lord of," "head of". Its specific positioning at the end of the word justifies the assumption that bigi means begi (i.e., beyi). Etimologically, structural integrity is supported by the homogeneity of the origins of the words that build the phrase kanasubigi. It probably was supposed to mean "ancestor of the lord of the rivers". Proto-Bulgarians either a Central Asian Turkic dialect or may only have borrowed names from that language and preserved them after their assumed emigration from Central Asia. The words kan, su and bigi fit the phonetics and semantics of Proto-Turkic texts found in Central Asia (created around AD 732), written in the so-called Orkhon Script.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanasubigi
