Topic: Pomak language ?

[Dobrev]

In any case there exist several academical researches about pomak language. Dobrev, I guess you oversimplify the pomak language and differences between tongues and languages.
For example :
Supposing that i'm a croatian man and also i can clearly understand all bulgarian dialects by this way do i need to abandon my race and my native language ? Be realistic

Toska, I am being realistic! And no - it`s no oversimplification.
The analogy with the pomaks that are outside Bulgaria is the same with the analogy with the Banat and Bessarabia Bulgarians, as well as the Bulgarians from East Serbia.
These were all groups which were not influenced by the modern Bulgarian language and they preserve the dialects that were spoken at the time they left Bulgaria.
The Banat Bulgarians migrated at the end of 18th-beginning of 19th c. They live in the region that was later divided between Romania and Hungaria. Like the pomaks in Turkey and Greece they are a Slavonic speaking minority among non-Slavonic majorities.
They still speak the Bulgarian dialects from the regions where they originated in Bulgaria.

This is not a different language, but dialects of the Bulgarian dialect continuum as they were spoken in 18th c.

Before you try to create a new language, read about the differences between the major Slavonic groups and you will see the characteristics of the Bulgarian continuum. The dialects you speak in Turkey are precisely from this Bulgarian continuum and not from some imaginary made-up language.
Take a look at the Banat Bulgarian - it is a dialect as it was spoken 200 years ago. I am sure you will understand most of it.

http://www.starbisnov.blogspot.com/





I understand the reasons for your efforts to disaffiliate with the Bulgarians, but when that is done by denying the basic linguistic principles, it serves no good. I am aware that there were in the past a lot of frictions between the Muslim and Christian Bulgarians, but that doesn`t justify any effort to deny our Bulgarian ancestry.

Take any linguist proficient in Slavonic languages and he will tell you that what you speak is a Bulgarian dialect and nothing else. I understand that your call for a Pomak language sounds populistic and appealing to the people in Turkey, Greece and a particular minority in the Nevrokop, but I cannot agree with that.

The Christian Bulgarians still speak the same dialects like the Pomaks.
And these are Bulgarian dialects.

[Sv]

The idea of a Pomak language was born by the Pan Turkist who more and more to isolate Pomaks from their true relatives. They assumed that creation of a  pomak language is the first step. The second step is to proove that it is a turkic language with slavic influence.

Actually, a study of Pomak shows it has more pure Slavic features than standard Bulgarian. That means Bulgarian was somehow corrupted (Simplified? Modernised? Turkified? Russified?) compared with Pomak language. And a casual review of postings about Pomak language on the net confirms that Pomaks are aware of this.

In looking at the Pomak latin script, it appears that there are several letters that don't exist in modern Bulgarian, but have Cyrillic equivallents. See this posting by a Slavic linguist.

Historically, this has led to interest in the study of the Slavic heritage preserved by Pomaks. For example Veda Slovana (1874) has gotten a lot of attention among Slavic scholars.

Another thing is clear as well. Unlike Bulgarians who use the name of the Turkik name "Bulgar", Pomaks have a Slavic name for themselves.

So who's promoting the Pan-Turkish agenda more? Bulgarians who call themselves with the name of a Turkish tribe of old, or Pomaks who use their own Slavic name?

[Тоска]

Actually, studying Pomak proves it has more pure Slavic features than standard Bulgarian

Absolutely true. Even the researchers whom i read point out that factor.

The Christian Bulgarians still speak the same dialects like the Pomaks. And these are Bulgarian dialects.

Being a bulgar? Firstly Let's describe the differences between nation, religion and language. According to me christians who live in rhodope mountains were possibly ancestors of muslims but that doesn't mean they are all bulgarians.

In the midst of all this if pomak language restructured i bet that it will not be fool-proofly as like as macedonian.


Here is an article which i found on e-library called "Bilingual speech and language ecology in Greek Thrace: Romani
and Pomak in contact with Turkish" by  EVANGELIA ADAMOU it's realted with Turkification of pomak language.



ATTACHMENT BELOW

[Hashashin]

Actually, studying Pomak proves it has more pure Slavic features than standard Bulgarian. That means Bulgarian was somehow corrupted (Simplified? Modernised? Turkified? Russified?) compared with Pomak language. And a casual review of postings about Pomak language on the net confirms that Pomaks are aware of this.

In looking at the Pomak latin script, it appears that there are several letters that don't exist in modern Bulgarian, but have Cyrillic equivallents. See this posting by a Slavic linguist.

Historically, this has led to interest in the study of the Slavic heritage preserved by Pomaks. For example Veda Slovana (1874) has gotten a lot of attention among Slavic scholars.

Another thing is clear as well. Unlike Bulgarians who use the name of the Turkik name "Bulgar", Pomaks have a Slavic name for themselves.

So who's promoting the Pan-Turkish agenda more? Bulgarians who call themselves with the name of a Turkish tribe of old, or Pomaks who use their own Slavic name?
 

I saw in my life time a foreigner to teach me who I am You are russian, and you know nothing about us. Russians and their puppet polititions made enough troubles in the Balkans. Look your Russian language and history and please don't care about ours. Ok?

[KaraIbrahim]

Slaven, I do not know whether you are familiar with Pomak speech in Bulgaria, but I feel like you know it only by Google.
  If you walk through Yakoruda, then through Chech and later in Central Rhodopes, will establish the following, in all places speak different dialekt.Pomaks in Yakoruda speaks as Christians  in Yakoruda, Muslims in Chech speaks equally with Christians in Chech.In Central Rhodopes pomaks and Christians also speaks equally.But between pomaks speech in Yakoruda,pomaks speech in Chech and pomak speech in the Central Rhodopesqor, or,if you prefer,pomak speech in Theteven Municipality-there are many diferences.And I ask the task-which one is "Pomak language and who is not is it?Or maybe  it's time to think about different dialects of Pomak language?
 

[Sv]

I saw in my life time a foreigner to teach me who I am You are russian, and you know nothing about us. Russians and their puppet polititions made enough troubles in the Balkans. Look your Russian language and history and please don't care about ours. Ok?

Actually, I am not Russian. But I do know who you are: a chauvinist who doesn't like other Slavs. Also, you are a kind of guy who likes to tell other ethnic groups who live in other countries what to do. Why you think you have the right to tell Pomaks who don't even live in Bulgaria what to call their language?

[Sv]

Slaven, I do not know whether you are familiar with Pomak speech in Bulgaria, but I feel like you know it only by Google.

I am not familiar with the language of Pomaks in Bulgaria, as I've never been to Bulgaria. But I have met Pomaks from Turkey, who tell met they are not Bulgarian and they don't speak Bulgarian.

[Hashashin]

I am not familiar with the language of Pomaks in Bulgaria, as I've never been to Bulgaria. But I have met Pomaks from Turkey, who tell met they are not Bulgarian and they don't speak Bulgarian.

And I met a lot of Martians

[Hashashin]

Actually, I am not Russian. But I do know who you are: a chauvinist who doesn't like other Slavs. Also, you are a kind of guy who likes to tell other ethnic groups who live in other countries what to do. Why you think you have the right to tell Pomaks who don't even live in Bulgaria what to call their language?

Again speaking bullshit like usual.

[Dobrev]

According to me christians who live in rhodope mountains were possibly ancestors of muslims but that doesn't mean they are all bulgarians.

Toska, that is quite a bold statement of yours.
Well, I have to prove you wrong.

There`s always been Christians in The Rhodopes.
And there`s tons of records that prove it. They even had their Christian religious books translated in the Rhodope dialect from Greek in the early 1800s. And as the Cyrillic alphabet was not yet revived and widely in use, their religious books were written with Greek letters.

Take a look. This is an article from the late 19th c on the Rhodope dialects. As you can see these dialects were spoken not only by Pomaks, but by Christian Bulgarians too.
Same language. Guess what it is?




РОДОПСКОТО НАРЕЧИЕ, ХР. ПОПКОНСТАНТИНОВ 1889



   Die Rhodopemundarten der Bulgarischen - Родопските диалекти на българския език, Милетич Л., 1911

[Dobrev]

The Rhodope dialects of the Bulgarian language




http://www.archive.org/stream/dierhodopemundar00mileuoft#page/n3/mode/2up

[Dobrev]

Actually, a study of Pomak shows it has more pure Slavic features than standard Bulgarian. That means Bulgarian was somehow corrupted (Simplified? Modernised? Turkified? Russified?) compared with Pomak language. And a casual review of postings about Pomak language on the net confirms that Pomaks are aware of this.

Take a look at the Old Bulgarian Language and you will see why the spoken dialects are different than the modern Bulgarian. What some want to call now pomak language is actually the Old Bulgarian. And "casual reviews online" will not prove anything, cause nothing on the Balkans is casual.

Старобългарска граматика

[Тоска]

Same language. Guess what it is?

Austrians are talking the same language as germans but if you ask them about their identy you will possibly get a quick response. They're all austrians   As i said there exist gap between pomak language (granted that christians who live in rhodopes) and official bulgarian.

[Dobrev]

Austrians are talking the same language as germans but if you ask them about their identy you will possibly get a quick response. They're all austrians   As i said there exist gap between pomak language (granted that christians who live in rhodopes) and official bulgarian.

Self identification has nothing to do with the linguistic characteristics of a certain speech.

And yes, there is a difference between the official Bulgarian and the Rhodope languages, cause they are dialects.

No matter what  part of Bulgaria you take - North, East, South, West - there is a difference between the spoken vernaculars and the official language. That is the relation "dialects:official".

[Sv]

The fact that some Pomaks consider themselves speaking Pomak and not Bulgarian doesn't change their ethnicity.