Topic: Pomak language ?

[Националист]

... Delete from Admin..

I can give you too some phrases, from my ancestors form Odrin /Edirne/ and Nish which you will never tell me what means, but they speak Bulgarian too...

[sioz]

I dont like nick names like a nasionalist, komunist, cristian, muslum,socialist. All thiese names are owned from people who are prejudiced with ethnic, politic religiuys and other non human behaviors. If you want to understen Pomak language You have to learn or to live in with Pomak peoplei Once more I think that Pomak language is more similar to Russian or rossian dialect language than Bulgarian language. I am not academic people ,I dont know the history (I do not care about the history) but I write what ı think. I havae many many friend Bulgarians, Pomaks Turks and no one are care how you feel your self. They are all think lake me " if you are honest person it is OK for me" . Not care what is your nation or origin. İs it true?

[Националист]

I won't comment your nickname, I will just explain what means mine - person who loves his country. I don't see anything bad in this. About the dialect... excuse me, but you are talking nonsense. There are no Russians in the Rodops. BELIEVE ME!

[rado]

    ..........   It is nothing new. Variations with language  can be many and different and they not make dialects different languages. There  are grammar, morphology and many other things which define language.  Not only vocabulary fund.  If I say something in my dialect no one normal  young Bulgarian can understand me, it is not because my dialect is not Bg, but  for these young people are affect from literature language more than our grandparents.

„Ди жъ wрьiш? Нъ Щоу зъ щьi.” 



Ву желъм здраwi нъ сьiнцъ ву!

[pisatel]

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Съюз на Писателите в България
THE WRITER`S UNION OF BULGARIA

ПИСАТЕЛИТЕ са ПРОРОЦИТЕ на ЧОВЕЧЕСТВОТО!
ПИСАТЕЛ  Е ТОЗИ, КОГОТО СМЯТАТ ЗА ТАКЪВ !

П О К А Н А

Съюзът на Писателите в България - www.worlduni.narod.ru, vashkevich@mail.bg , най-учтиво Ви кани  на редовни сбирки, провеждащи се на ул. "Бенковски"№ 25,
в сградата на ”Посолство на Мира” към Световната Обединителна Организация:
- всяка неделя от 11 часа, всеки понеделник от 18 часа, всяка сряда от 16 часа.
Темата за м. май е: ``Гуманизм человеколюбия``. Гледи и слушай нас на живо по Интернет на този адрес; http://www.bnptv.info/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=425:2009-09-30-13-35-59&catid=64:kulturasp&Itemid=121 ;

[bogutevolu]

I have read the historical event that you have mentioned. I hope your sources any time.
We support that the whole Bulgarian nation regardless of which religion must be united. Bulgarian Christian, Muslim and other believers must be respected for each other.
I am proud of my religion how were my ancestors in the past.
I have remember that source about  Christianization of Bulgaria. As if parallel to forcing Islamisation of Pomaks.                                                                                                                   
Christianization of Bulgaria                                                                                                                    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianization_of_Bulgaria
“As Byzantine missions converted the Bulgarians, their forces encouraged the people to destroy the pagan holy places. Conservative Bulgarian aristocratic circles opposed such destruction, as they had led the spiritual rituals. In 865, malcontents from all ten administrative regions (komitats) revolted against Boris (now titled Knyaz), accusing him of giving them "a bad law". The rebels moved toward the capital intending to capture and kill the knyaz, and to restore the old religion.
All that is known is that Knyaz Boris gathered people loyal to him and suppressed the revolt. He ordered the execution of 52 boyars who were leaders in the revolt, "along with their whole families". “

[bricktop]

Man, the more I read the topic, the more I believe that how you call your language is a matter of choice. We should leave the language and dialect matters to the linguists and focus on what brings us together as people.
I am a Bulgarian city "boy" with roots from Vardar Macedonia. I was a child when we went for a brief holiday to a family friend's country house(разбирай - бунгалце) in Сърница. A village populated exclusively by Pomaks. The owner had no roots in the area, she was actually a Bulgarian jew from German descent - Tanti(aunty from German) Ljuba. During our stay there, misteriously, every morning there were a jug of fresh milk and a bowl of freshly made yougurt(квасено млеко, как му викаше баба ми, македонката:) left at the door step of the "house"(shack actually). These were not gifts from God, they were gifts from the local people. Mind you, we were complete strangers, people that no one knew, saw, or ever had heard before....and still.
Maaan, I still crave the taste of that milk and yougurt:)
A little off-topic, but emotional:)
Cheers everyone!

[Adrenalin]

They talk in the different regions differently, as well all think that pomak language is talked truly in their own district

[Беглик]

Bricktop, maaan, when this took place? The shack was on the Sarnica side of the lake or on the other side where Romantica and Robotica are?

[Националист]

Bogutevolu, can you tell me something about your name, I know a person with name Bogutev, is this the root of you name?

[erol.elis]

Actualy every body write something about the pomaks, but never ask what thing the most of them. I think that no small part of them are proud to be called POMAK, but most of them try to hide the own identy. We must try to help all to be proud that are POMAK. Religion are important and this is one of the pillars of the identy.
My own opinion is that the Ottoman imperial is the first democratic system of the world. Every body are citizen and no have difference between them, only the religion is one of the differnces, but never have problems.
Another important point is that never have any problems about the languages (tongues) and folklore & ethnic differences.

[Nazmi]

Bogutevolu, can you tell me something about your name, I know a person with name Bogutev, is this the root of you name?

Nacionalist,the personal information with our members is strongli sekret./ Please,chek forum pravila/
I dont knou ,if you have any question,please send mesage for him!

[Nazmi]

Ago Mustafa,

There`s a lot of things that are questionable here.

First lets start with what language do you define as "pomak" - the language from the Rupchos region, the language from Chech region, the language from Pirin region, the language from Lovech in Northern Bulgaria, Pleven or Teteven?
These are all distinctive regions where pomaks are found and we are all with different dialects.
The pomaks from Northern Bulgaria don`t speak like the ones in Rupchos.
The Pirin pomaks speak different than the Eastern Rhodope people.

If you consider the dialect Rupchos to be pomak language, then what language do the pomaks from the other regions speak?

Please keep in mind that a lot more Christians speak Rupchos dialect than Muslims, as the Rup dialects stretch from Western Rhodopes to Strandja and Sakar to the East.
So we canno claim that this is pomak language as the Christians living here speak the same dialect.

I understand that the situation in Turkey is different. There the only people speaking what you call "pomak" are namely the pomaks that were resettled after the fall of the Ottoman empire. You have no contacts with Christian Bulgarians from the Rupchos region. If you had contact, you would have seen that these Christians speak absolutely the same language that you speak. Of course due to the mass education and the influence of the media, the people living in the Rhodopi region tend to speak the official Bulgarian language. But the old people, both Christian and Muslim, speak still the dialects.


So Rupchos dialects are not privy to pomaks.
In Bulgaria we all speak the same dialects - no matter if we are Christian or Muslim.

The difference comes from the geographical region, not from the religious affiliation.


You say that "pomak" is more Slavic than Bulgarian.

Bulgarian is a Slavic language.
If you refer to the language of the Proto-Bulgarians - we still have no definitive proof what their language was.

Modern scholars define as Bulgarian the language in which all the Church Slavonic books were written in the 9-10-11 century. This is a Slavic language. Moreover they define the dialects of Solun as the basis of the Church Slavonic.

I am aware that the pomak people in Turkey do not identify themselves with Bulgarians.
That is why you do not define the language you speak as Bulgarian.

But again the problem here stems from the religious affiliation.
As we all know, the religion was the defining factor until the beginning of the 20th century.
Bulgarian was equal to Orthodox Christian and Muslim was equal to Turk.
It was religion that was the predominant factor in people`s lives as most of them were illiterate.
But since the introduction of the education in the 20th c, a lot of people started to realize that Muslim is not the same as Turk and Bulgarian is not the same as Christian.


So Rupchos dialects cannot be claimed as pomak language.
Remember that the Christians from this region even had the Bible translated in Rhodope dilect at the beginning of the 19th century in order to replace the Greek language in their churches

 
 

I think  this posting from B.Dobrev needet respekt and thinks about pomaks language. Afkourse,we needet some histori dokument with pomak language,but in this time we have just diskisons ,it is good for really pomaks peoplle in world!

[rado]

•     Boyan is absolutely  correct all the rest is too much fantasy, less seriously understanding what the  language is ti.

[makebulgar]

Hello,
I was invited to   join the theme, and I will give my opinion.

I think that the   language of Pomaks is part of the Bulgarian dialects. I think Pomak name comes from the Bulgarian language   and is related to the adoption of Islam in part of the Bulgarians.


New   studies of Bulgarian and other Slavic languages show that their   ancestors were Scythian and Sarmatian languages. Of   all the Slavic languages in the languages of the southern Slavs, found   the most words from the so-called Eastern Iranian vocabulary. Eastern Iranian languages are the languages of the   Sarmatians - Alans, Bactrians/Balkharian,  horezemians and sogdiyans. Sarmatians   are peoples who invaded Europe from Central Asia in 300 BC, and they are not   descendants of the Thracians.

In this   background, the question of the origin of language of Pomaks should be   placed so.

Whence they came,   all those ancient Eastern Iranian and Aryan words in modern   Pomak language???

It is impossible for them to come   to the Ottoman period, because they are not part of the Ottoman language   or modern Turkish. They are not part of   the Persian borrowings in the Ottoman language, but to this day some of   them are used in Bulgaria and in Pamir.